ff_hold (WIP)

[A1win]

edit: I've already started my first FF map, ff_hold, scroll a few posts down for it.

Hi

Here's some background about my mapping experience if anyone's interested, but you can just skip it if not:

I've been mapping for HL since 1999 or something and also made some stuff for Source. I've only released a few Sven Co-op maps, but got dozens of unfinished ones for various mods. I've also made some TFC maps, but only played them with my friends as they've all been very tiny-scaled and balanced mainly for 4-8 player games.

I haven't used much time for Source mapping yet, because there haven't been any good mods out. The release of FF seems like a good time to start.

Here's some screenies from a couple of my unfinished HL2 maps:
http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/arena17/ (for Sven Co-op 2, whenever it comes out (those dudes in the audience are actually a bunch of animated textures, not models))
http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/puzzlement/ (single player)


Finally, on the topic:

I don't want to make a normal CTF map, as there will be more than enough of those anyway. I want to make something where the teams are performing different tasks at the same time, but which can (if needed) be switched during the game (like in avanti).

Symmetric maps are a lot easier to balance than others like AvD and Hunted. Balancing a map needs testing with large teams, and I'm not quite sure if I'm able to get a server to support games that big, or even find that many testers.

A map like dustbowl needs to have balanced scoring and time limit, where maps like avanti don't, as both teams do the same things equal number of times. I've always liked both of those maps probably the most, so making an AvD map sounds interesting even though it would require lots of testing.

Hunted can also be fun sometimes, but these maps are probably even more difficult to balance than AvD maps.

My latest TFC map is a very small one (made it last week), which is kind of a cross between dustbowl and avanti. There are two small bases right next to eachother with a smallish hole in the wall between them (a bit like the dustbowl starting holes, but wider and shorter). One team is defending and one attacking at a time, and the roles change when the attackers get the flag to the capture point inside the enemy base (which is about 10 second run from the hole). Only the capper respawns, others remain as they were. Gate on the hole closes for 30 seconds after a cap. The only problem is that the players need to kill themselves often to change their class, but otherwise it was fun even in 1vs1 and 2vs2 games. Here's some screenshots from a beta: http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/half-life/tfc/dusthole/

Maybe my first FF map could be a bit similar, just with a little longer rounds. Basically an AvD map with identical bases, where roles change after each cap.


I'm still open to suggestions. The map can also be something completely different than my ideas here, as long as I (and hopefully others) like it, too.

[own3r]

A map with a similar style to push would be nice, that is a football game basically and is great fun on FF and would have all the LUA done already for you.

[A1win]

Interesting, the gameplay in push is actually very similar to the TFC map I made. The only difference is that there's only one "flag" that both teams can carry.

I'll think about it, but I'll first see what others suggest

Oh and btw, I don't know LUA syntax very well yet, but I'm familiar with lots of scripting languages and will probably learn it quickly.

[ClangClangBoom]

I agree with the idea of a push style map, but build it so classes aren't limited like in push. (HWGuy is an option to eliminate though)

Just make sure its not as tiny as my e-pen0r like push is. Have areas where all classes can excel.

[mervaka]

king of the hill maps i wanna see more of. i'm making one at the moment, but i'm kinda tied up doing sound right now

[Sh4x]

Wow... I didnt remember TFC textures and I got surprised when looking at your screenshots, FF really is looking alot better.

[A1win]

I got this (crazy) idea of making a soccer field and building a fortress on and around it

I named it ff_harder for now (a push clone but bigger, so you have to push harder). So far I have only the cap point with crappy textures, but what do you think - ditch it or continue?

http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/hammer/ff_harder/

Players enter the cap point from above. I thought there could be a wide area in the center of the map where the ball starts, and some kind of towers or maybe audience seats or something where snipers have a good view to it. Then make some alternative route that goes around the center area so you can avoid the snipers, but can't get the ball if it's in the middle. The alternative route could also be narrow so soldiers and demomans would be good there.

[ClangClangBoom]

looks good. although i dont know how the rest of the map will turn out and I am going to assume you know that you are gonna need some team coloring in the finished project. and possibly different textures. I'm not a big fan of the defaults.

[A1win]

I'll choose the textures when I get them. The mod is not even released yet

I'd like some comments about the whole idea of the map, not just the screenshots.

[Sh4x]

Uhhhhhhhhhh I dunno man, its hard to tell without trying it.

[A1win]

Yeah you're right... The idea of making a soccer field doesn't really help designing the fortress, just shows the position of the ball and the capture points. I'll try to plan something on paper before continuing mapping. I just had to make the cap point as I got inspired to it.

I'm not sure if I continue with this push gameplay, so suggestions are still welcome.

King of the hill sounds interesting too. Do the teams try to get a flag to the top, or do they just gain control of the top by killing all enemies there? Maybe there could be two smaller hills on the sides of the bigger hill, which could be captured for a resupply area?

[Doughnut-4|4-]

I made a King of the Hill style once with four teams in a tight building quad... think Hungry Hippos layout. Well, each team was given a flag and so long as a member of that team carried the flag on the hill... the team scored points per second. Simple killing fun.

http://gallery.filefront.com/ABrookes//633399/

Another idea, if you want a big hill is do like a command point style with 1 flag per team and only 1 cap at the hill top.

I never really liked single flag maps personally.

[A1win]

I started a king of the hill type map, which has a fortress instead of a hill. I've been working with it for 8 hours (edit: some screenshots are newer now) and it's looking quite nice for that time. Textures suck until I can start using the FF textures, but the basic architecture is about done. I'll add a couple bunkers next to the wall on each side of the entrance for respawn rooms. Both teams have their own entrance on the opposite sides and the castle is symmetric.

http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/hammer/ff_hold/

Suggestions are welcome again.

[DirkPitt]

you should make that arena one a little smaller and then make a 4 team deathmatch like a soldier arena or something

[A1win]

Originally Posted by DirkPitt

you should make that arena one a little smaller and then make a 4 team deathmatch like a soldier arena or something

Maybe. There's still a lot of work to be done to the audience textures though, and my friend was working on those. We were going to implement cool looking cheering and booing animations etc. Maybe I could also implement some kind of tournament mode using LUA code and so on... However, I'll do some other maps first I think.


I continued with ff_hold. I got rid of the boring looking ramps and replaced them with stairs. I also added arches to most places where they seemed to fit. There's still the respawn rooms missing, which I'm going to add next to the big entrances, similar structures than those on the sides with small entrances. I replaced the old screenshots with new ones, so if you saw them already, try reloading the images in your browser:
http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/hammer/ff_hold/

I was also planning the gameplay a bit with my friends. We decided that there could be one flag in the middle of the roof, and the team who is carrying it gets points per second. If the flag carrier dies or moves away from the roof, the flag is returned to the center within a few (5-10) seconds. The flag carrier could get quad damage or something to motivate people to hold the flag.

Also, if anyone has an idea for a better name, would be much appreciated. However, ff_hold describes both the gameplay and the theme of the map quite well imo.

edit: I know it looks too simple at the moment, but I promise it will be a lot better when I get the FF textures and start adding detail

[A1win]

Just posting an update, or rather a "downdate", as I started remaking the whole map. The basic gameplay mechanics are ready and we were testing them in the older version of the map, but the fortress itself was way too high.

Here's an overview of the map as it is now, but it's still missing platforms from the outer walls, and detail of couse.

ff_hold0000.jpg

[A1win]

Oops a triple post, but might be worth it this time

More screenshots:
http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/ff_hold/

The lights and cubemaps are still a bit off, but I'll fix them for the final release. The map also needs a neutral flag model/skin, the current green one is only a placeholder.

The gameplay is currently like this:

• The middle area and the roofs of the towers are surrounded by the yellow-black hazard stripes. This is the area where the flag must be held.
• If the player goes away from this area, he starts taking 5 damage every 0.5 seconds (affected by armor).
• If held outside the area or thrown away, the flag will return to the middle after 10 seconds.
• When held inside the area, the flag regenerates its holder for 1 health and 2 armor every 0.25 seconds.
• When held (anywhere), the flag...
  • awards 1 score for the holder's team every 10 seconds.
  • awards 100 Fortress Points for the holder every 10 seconds.

I might replace the flag holder regeneration with Quad Damage if it starts working in the next patch.

Here's the current LUA file: ff_hold.lua
It's still a bit buggy and will probably change quite a bit. I'll try to keep it up to date.

[stino]

lol, why 14 links when they all refer to 0001

[A1win]

Fixed

...yeah that's better.

[stino]

http://a1win.loota.fi/ss/hl2/ff_hold/ff_hold0004.jpg

damd nice!